wykham martin furler blues

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Hello,

We have recently purchased the 28' FWB Molly Oxford (and are delighted whit her!). She has a Wykham-Martin furler for the jib, and I seem to have a devil of a time working out the best way to get it up.

I do use the 'electrical tape at the top' trick to try to stop halyard twist, but beyond that I am clearly not cunning enough... I'd like to do the job neatly and relatively swiftly, and end up with no twists and a jib that correctly furls all the way in when the string is pulled. Am I asking too much?

We have to take it down each time as we have to take the bowsprit in to fit into out mooring. (which is a bit of a wrestle also, given it must weigh what I do!). So we store it furled and coiled up in its sailbag. Should I leave the sheets on too, for least hassle?

Any hints and tips very gratefully appreciated.

Thanks,

Kirsty

Colin Stroud
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Joined: 25 Aug 2006

Hello Lloyd, yes, that is how I understand you do it but I have never needed to. If the halyard is triangulated, as mentioned in the other posts, then you should not have a problem.

Colin of "Plum"

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Hi all. Where abouts does the eletrical tape go? do you rap it around the furler and then hope it comes off once you have got the jib up?

Colin Stroud
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Joined: 25 Aug 2006

Gareth, these postings do not always appear in the logical order so hope you find this one. Your description of your jib halyard arrangement is typical and works well provided the jib luff is the correct length for this arrangement!!! I guess you have two alternatives (not including the ones of making the mast taller or having your jib shortened!)

1) put the turning block at the masthead and use a braided halyard to reduce the chance of wind-up during hoisting

2) use a single part halyard over a block at the masthead and down to the deck. If this does not give enough purchase then use a handy-billy on the tail to tighten the final part.

Colin

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sorry, missed this one somehow.

Brian (and anyone here, in fact!):

Email address is the same as my username 'at' netcomuk 'dot' co 'anotherdot' uk

it's a weird address that catches people out, even when put in plain text!

Guest
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I have tried attaching the halyard to the top of the mast and then down to the swivel at the head of the jib and then to an eyebolt 2 feet below which does stop any twist.
However I am not sure if it is right as it seems to pull the top of the sail into the lower eye and therefore reduces the distance available for the sail.
As I measured up for the sail to go to the top of the mast, I have a slight problem.!
Have I rigged it up wrong or will I just have to use the top block?

Any ideas greatfully received

Gareth 18 foot Tosher Teasel

Brian Neale
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Joined: 03 Sep 2006

Kirsty - I tried sending you an email a couple of days ago. Did it arrive? Not sure if I managed to translate the obfuscated email address correctly!

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Brian -

"I then fasten the top swivel to the drum, but bridge the two with a piece of line that bypasses the swivels and takes the hoisting load"

ahh.. that's genius that is. May do that. Might solve halyard bang too.... Of course the jib halyard is too short right now to reach the stem (but it's too short to make off at the base of the mast - I have a bit of extra line bent onto it for now.... new one on shopping list...)

I got it up twist free at the start of our holidays and then anchored all the time so didn't need to get it down :-) [which has lead to me rigging a bowsprit end block (a la Larry Pardey's suggestion) to feed a snubber line through to rolling hitch to the chain keep us from grinding the bobstay... we shall see...]

I keep a little tension on the furler line as I run the jib out on the traveller - which seem to stop it unrolling more than a couple of turns. Of course tape on the top swivel to stop it moving before the sail goes out is indespensible! I also go "roll, in then down" on the way in.

I solved the friction problem by just doing the furling from the bow. Hmm, maybe a block on the shroud would be the thing... we might take you up on the offer to have a look sometime (always good to see other Heards!) - drop me an e on kpollock 'at' netcomuk 'dot' co 'dotttt' uk

I also want a big light airs drifter type nylon foresail and am scheming how best to get it made/set up to go up (and more importantly down!) easily. Free flying - but be nice to get it to set somewhat upwind too... Obviously the jib furler drum will not do - shame cos it might not tack/gybe all that easily... fun fun fun.

hmm, the leathering on the traveller hoop is going too - more fun (sewing leather, urgh....)

Brian Neale
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Joined: 03 Sep 2006

Hadn't thought of that one, Colin - the second set of bowsprit shrouds. Neat idea.

For anyone that is concerned (like me, before I tried it), in practice there is no need to slacken the main bowsprit shrouds when lifting or lowering. Mine has lashings and there is enough "give" to let the bowsprit go through the tight spot as you lift, just as it goes above horizontal. Wouldn't want to do this with a solid setup with bottlescrews, although I know one "28" owner who has fitted highfield levers to tension the bowsprit shrouds to avoid this particular problem.

Colin Stroud
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Joined: 25 Aug 2006

Brian, thanks for the very informative reply. I would like to add that I also raise rather that run-in the bowsprit and like you also worry about the lateral stability of the sprit when raising as the strain on the deck if the boat rolls is large. To overcome this I have fitted two additional bowsprit shrouds, light wire of 4mm diameter and fitted with lashings to U-bolts fitted on the hinge axis outside the bulwarks to ensure the bowsprit is always supported. The main bowsprit shrouds go slack when raised but need no attention at all. This has meant that I do not have to worry about bowsprit shouds at all when raising and lowering and do not have to worry about finding flat water for the operation. I too do most of my sailing single-handed.

Colin

Brian Neale
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Joined: 03 Sep 2006

BTW, I am based at Ocean Village, Southampton, and happy to receive visitors by arrangement to view anything I talk about here!

I have a lifting bowsprit on Victoria Ruth. Martin Heard had apparently started fitting them as standard by the time that I bought her as this was the most popular option. You are absolutely right that when hoisted (and indeed, while hoisting) the 'sprit is not very well supported. I always try to do this in flat water, or watch for approaching waves, before hoisting/lowering. Once hoisted, though, I have fitted a second eye a short way up the bowsprit shrouds that picks up a quick-release pelican hook attached to the boat. I can then lower the 'sprit a touch to take the weight on the shrouds, pull down the bobstay tightly, and the 'sprit is then very well stayed and does not move around. That's how it lives in the marina, although unfortunately my berth is not long enough to raise/lower the 'sprit while alongside. Hoisting, I take the weight on the halyard, slip the hooks, and can then quickly lower. Usually to just above the gammon iron, while I quickly make fast the halyard and go forward to clear the outhaul and bobstay lines from where they are about to get trapped...

As for the halyard twisting - yes, been there... I have a much more modern jib furling gear than the WM (can't remember the name - something like Schreiber or Schwindler?) which does not look so traditional but is much freer running, I think. I had a couple of WM sets on my previous 16' gaff cutter, and although they usually worked, they were a bit prone to jamming, line falling off, and so on. I had a problem a couple of years back when I could not lower the 'sprit - the halyard twist put so much friction in the system that the weight of the 'sprit would not bring it down. I had to come alongside somewhere and drag it down with a line from the pontoon which gave a better angle. In the end, I discovered that the both parts of the furling system were choked with salt, and a good flush through fixed the problem. An annual bath seems to control the problem, although I keep thinking about a second halyard attachment point a la Aeolus.

I lower and fix the bowsprit, then run out the furled jib, then hoist. The thing always unfurls at this stage as the furling line has no tension in it, but that is usually not a problem. Coming back in, I roll then drop the jib, run in the traveller and unhitch the jib. I then fasten the top swivel to the drum, but bridge the two with a piece of line that bypasses the swivels and takes the hoisting load. This avoids a lot of the twist problems as mentioned above. Run out the traveller and rehoist. I have also thought about a dedicated halyard to the end of the bowsprit to save effort here, but it needs a couple of other jobs to do first - lower attachment point for jib halyard as above, to put a bit more separation between jib and lifting halyard (avoid one being rolled into the other) and a solid fixing for the bowsprit cap which would otherwise come off once the 'sprit was lifted beyond about 45deg.

Furling line has a block seized to the bowsprit shroud about 1/3 back from the tip which gives a reasonable lead on to the drum (important to save friction) and then goes through three, I think, bullseye fairleads on the way back to the cockpit. Generally, friction is not the biggest problem. I suffer more from judging the right amount of line to put on the drum when first hoisting (too little and there is not enough to take up slack in the rolled sail, too much and there is not enough space on the drum) and, first time or two each season, a complete inability to work out which way round the drum to put those first few turns!

I usually sail single-handed, so have put some effort into making things a bit easier for myself. I'm not fully there yet (witness 'sprit hoisting halyard still needed!) but I'm getting there slowly.

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Colin,

Thanks for the tips - Steve has also been very helpful and suggested the same, and it ties in with what I was thinking. I need to check that the blocks are at enough spacing (I think not!) - and that the radar reflector isn't fouling them (it may have to go).

I prefer the running in/out type bowsprit - it seems a bit big and heavy to me, to swing up and leave there - even when secured. Though I can see the timesaving! I do know the previous owner used to tie the rolled up jib to the forestay - but since we have had to remove the UV strip (just too tattered after partially unfurling when not required- oops!) I can't do that at present. Maybe I could bag it somehow.

Running off to blanket the jib is a good plan - have used that before with gennakers.

Colin Stroud
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Joined: 25 Aug 2006

Hello Kirsty, congratulations on getting Molly Oxford. I have a Heard 23 ("Plum") which although smaller often has similar arrangements to the 28s. As Steve has said, you need that triangulation of the halyard at the top to stop the twist. You may still get some twist as you hoist but as you tension the halyard the twist unwinds. As you have a double ended halyard you should have one block at the masthead and one at least 2-feet down. I have English Braid's three strand polyester buff colour rope which works fine.

To overcome the need to remove the jib I converted to steeving-up the bowsprit rather than running it in. I have a turning block for the furling line close to the bowsprit hinge pin so I can leave the jib traveller out at the end of the bowsprit and raise the bowsprit without the jib unfurling. The jib then just hangs in a big "U". I then tie the lower part of the "U" to the bowsprit to stop it swinging about and just leave it like that. Saves a lot of time.

Have you had any problems in furling the jib in stronger winds yet? If so, the trick is to furl it when running down-wind while it is blanketed by the mainsail.

Colin of "Plum"

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Steve,

Great stuff.

Sorry for being ambiguous - by "out then up" I meant the furled jib out on the traveller before hoisting the halyard.

Molly has a handybilly rigged to one end of the halyard, so hoist on the plain end til I can't then secure it and pull on the handybilly, then secure that. Yes, well reminded on the backstays (another thing I'll have to have a think about the best way to handle).

We are at Wicormarine in Fareham. Nice spot with plenty of time to the harbour entrance to get eveything set up :-). Normally I'd be helming - but the boyfriend is still recovering from a broken arm.

Aeolus FWB28
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Joined: 26 Aug 2006

Unfortunately the present forum doesn't allow photos to be posted directly,but email me and I'll send you a photo of the arrangement on Aeolus.

If you have a furler on the jib then the idea is that it stays at the end of the sprit and you furl it! So out to the end furled then tighten the halyard---I use a handy billy with prussik knot to achieve the tension---dont forget to tension the bobstay too!!---then unfurl. Remember when tensioning the foresail halyards to release the backstays, mainsheet etc first.
The furling line on Aeolus goes from the drum to a small block attached to the bowsprit shroud about 3ft back then through 1 block to the cockpit.

Where is she kept?

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Thanks Steve,

I will read through your suggestions closely and have a squint up the mast again. I have been up there rigging her, and spent a while peering up there on Saturday as I tried to untangle things, but at the moment I'd struggle to describe the exact layout up there (still trying to get my head round the double-ended halyard!). It's definitely not triangular though! I'll try to draw a diagram when I am down at the boat this weekend.

I think I have managed to sketch your setup and can see how it would help. We have a radar reflector up there to get in the way too, right where it sounds like your eyebolt is - I've been thinking it might have to go...

The furler line does indeed have a dreadful run and horrible friction. I was thinking of just doing away with the run back to the cockpit and furling the jib from the foredeck.

Would you recommend running the jib "out then up" or "up then out"?

Kirsty

Aeolus FWB28
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Joined: 26 Aug 2006

Hello Kirsty and welcome.

I'm not sure of the arrangement on Molly Oxford but on Aeolus I have ditched the 3 strand for Marlowbraid and also there are 2 attachment points for the jib halyard at the top of the mast..........

Basically starting at the base of the mast, the halyard goes up to a top block then to a block at the head of the jib then to an eyebolt a couple of feet down from the top block. This lower point is in fact the end of the bolt which is used by the peak halyard.
In this way with the Marlowbraid and triangular rig the halyard does not twist when raised.
Another tip is to have the furling line run through as few blocks as possible thereby reducing the friction when furling....not something you mentioned I know but may be of help. Yes I would leave the sheets attached too.

I do hope this makes sense. If not send me your phone number and I will be more than happy to chat. Regards, Steve.


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